paulwoods13 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 8:21 am
Demski's an effective runner, but he's not a RB. Unless for every one of his carries, Oliveira/Augustine were both on the sidelines.
But even if we credit his carries as belonging to an RB, that leaves us (so far) with four run-heavy (my phrase, not yours) teams dating back to 1990. In that span there have been something in the range of 300 18-game schedules on a team-by-team basis. I didn't do an exact calculation -- there were as few as eight per season, and as many as 13 during US expansion. Round to nine per year times 34 seasons (excluding 2020-2021) and you end up with 304. Round down to 300, and we are currently at it happening 1.33 per cent of the time since 1990. Not much of a statistical sample, and no doubt there were a few other such seasons that will soon be uncovered by Will's crack research skills. Bottom line is that running that much is a definite outlier, and IMO it's highly unlikely an Argo team coached by Dinwiddie and with Kelly at QB is going to join the outliers club.
A designed run play is a run play, period; doesn't matter if the guy is normally at slotback, he is still taking a hand-off and not a forward pass; just like a lot of QB carries are not really run plays even if they statistically might count as one - often they are just forced scrambles from a designed pass play - though there are some designed QB runs, plus some RPO type stuff which is more like a 50/50 play call.
I don't really care about the statistical history there, interesting as it may be. I'm more interested in the Argos having a powerhouse offence and taking full advantage of all the talent they have (like 2 CFL thousand yard backs) and maybe having a very diverse, non same old CFL offence. They already have that anyways with a strong ground game plus Kelly able to throw intermediate and deep strikes way more than most teams. An even more powerful & applied ground game could be very effective and interesting to see.
Everybody knows a strong running game is a QB’s best friend. One would think a HC who was a former QB would me MORE likely, not less, to want to build one.
RichK wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 5:38 pm
Everybody knows a strong running game is a QB’s best friend. One would think a HC who was a former QB would me MORE likely, not less, to want to build one.
Might think that; yet the Ticats (with former QB Scotty M as HC) and the Als (with former QBs Maas & Calvillo as HC & OC), were 2nd and 3rd last in rushing offence last season. They run basic, mostly pass, standard look CFL offences (though Scotty did try some TE and H-back last season).
And I'm not saying a big or powerful ground game is some guarantee of CFL success; just that I think it can be very good and since I like diversity in football like to see much more of it in the CFL. The RedBlacks were other end of the scale for the East semi against the Argos last year and put up almost 500 passing yards and pretty well doubled time of possession on the Argos GC winning D. A team that tried that pretty well all pass offence or 6 pack look on a season might be pretty interesting to see as well; again, diversity is more interesting IMO. Same old, copy cat, one basic run play with then mostly short pass offence, by most teams, in a 9 team league = not so interesting IMO.
RichK wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 5:38 pm
Everybody knows a strong running game is a QB’s best friend. One would think a HC who was a former QB would me MORE likely, not less, to want to build one.
Might think that; yet the Ticats (with former QB Scotty M as HC) and the Als (with former QBs Maas & Calvillo as HC & OC), were 2nd and 3rd last in rushing offence last season. They run basic, mostly pass, standard look CFL offences (though Scotty did try some TE and H-back last season).
And I'm not saying a big or powerful ground game is some guarantee of CFL success; just that I think it can be very good and since I like diversity in football like to see much more of it in the CFL. The RedBlacks were other end of the scale for the East semi against the Argos last year and put up almost 500 passing yards and pretty well doubled time of possession on the Argos GC winning D. A team that tried that pretty well all pass offence or 6 pack look on a season might be pretty interesting to see as well; again, diversity is more interesting IMO. Same old, copy cat, one basic run play with then mostly short pass offence, by most teams, in a 9 team league = not so interesting IMO.
Depends on the team and the players. Watching Ricky Ray essentially will the team from one end of the field to the other with endless checkdowns was pretty frickin' entertaining.
RichK wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 5:38 pm
Everybody knows a strong running game is a QB’s best friend. One would think a HC who was a former QB would me MORE likely, not less, to want to build one.
Might think that; yet the Ticats (with former QB Scotty M as HC) and the Als (with former QBs Maas & Calvillo as HC & OC), were 2nd and 3rd last in rushing offence last season.
You gotta have the horses if you want to build the big ground game. The 2025 Argos have arguably one of the strongest RB rooms in recent memory. Those two teams most definitely did not.
RichK wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 5:38 pm
Everybody knows a strong running game is a QB’s best friend. One would think a HC who was a former QB would me MORE likely, not less, to want to build one.
Might think that; yet the Ticats (with former QB Scotty M as HC) and the Als (with former QBs Maas & Calvillo as HC & OC), were 2nd and 3rd last in rushing offence last season.
You gotta have the horses if you want to build the big ground game. The 2025 Argos have arguably one of the strongest RB rooms in recent memory. Those two teams most definitely did not.
Your statement is correct Rich, you have to adjust your schemes to suit the talent on the roster.
The Argonauts do in fact have a ton of talent at RB which opposing DC’s will need to respect but when you have a QB with the arm talent Kelly has you take full advantage of that.
RichK wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 5:38 pm
Everybody knows a strong running game is a QB’s best friend. One would think a HC who was a former QB would me MORE likely, not less, to want to build one.
Might think that; yet the Ticats (with former QB Scotty M as HC) and the Als (with former QBs Maas & Calvillo as HC & OC), were 2nd and 3rd last in rushing offence last season.
You gotta have the horses if you want to build the big ground game. The 2025 Argos have arguably one of the strongest RB rooms in recent memory. Those two teams most definitely did not.
For sure; but if you have / acquire lots of RB talent, you think you might want to deploy it lots. Nobody forced the Argos brass to sign a former 1000 yard back like Brown this off-season and when they already had Carey, but they did, so maybe they're thinking a strong ground game ? The Als rolling with a decent little back, but hardly a rushing force, like Fletcher last year, plus not turning much to a veteran, accomplished back like Thomas_Erlington was part of the design / preference for their offence.
OV Argo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 9:09 pmNobody forced the Argos brass to sign a former 1000 yard back like Brown this off-season and when they already had Carey, but they did, so maybe they're thinking a strong ground game ?
Carey was a pending free agent when Brown signed. The team might have signed Brown on the assumption that Carey (like a lot of other Argos) was likely to price himself out of town. Turned out he didn't, so nice problem to have with two guys of that calibre. Maybe they'll dress and use both at the same time, but I'll believe it when I see it.
OV Argo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 9:09 pmNobody forced the Argos brass to sign a former 1000 yard back like Brown this off-season and when they already had Carey, but they did, so maybe they're thinking a strong ground game ?
Carey was a pending free agent when Brown signed. The team might have signed Brown on the assumption that Carey (like a lot of other Argos) was likely to price himself out of town. Turned out he didn't, so nice problem to have with two guys of that calibre. Maybe they'll dress and use both at the same time, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I thought there was little to no chance Carey was returning when the Argonauts signed Brown.
As you said nice problem to have, I have faith in Dinwiddie to utilize the talent accordingly.
This is my opinion, like Paul, I see very little chance of all 3 RB’s dressing. I would bet Carey and Brown will be rotating in and out of the line up the first few games while the Argos decide who will be the starter going forward. And McMahon brings a different skill set, so he likely will dress throughout the process.
Sorry, this isn’t the 60’s and it isn’t pee wee football. You won’t see any full house backfields.
